Yet Another Christian Fundamentalist Misunderstands Valid Concerns As Rebellion Against their "God's" Authority

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Discussion continuing from here:
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@keishaanderson3252  offers this:

" @ApPersonaNonGrata  Based on my understanding, the reason as to why Japanese people find it hard to be servants of Jesus is because, they put their ancestors and Jesus on the same pedestal.

Yes, you can love, adore and respect your family. However, when you start to put them on a a pedestal of them being your creator, then that is where it becomes a problem. Which os what true followers of God are objecting to. Above in this comments, someone quoted “You cannot serve two masters, because you will love one and despise the other”. Which is true in what is being stated in the video. Japanese people find it difficult to fully commit to God because they are worried about how they would be perceived by their families, if they lessen their fulfillment of their families tradition. However, God is patient and kind, and as long as you faithfully come to Him with your problems, worries and concerns. Then He will guide you to the truth. And to my understanding you stated that, you cannot serve God and Jesus at the same time. God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one but also separate. Jesus is our connection to God, He is our shepherd, as we are His sheep.

I appreciate that you took the time to articulate your views on these couple of issues.

However, 

the woman (in this video) is *not* describing anyone as:

treating or 'thinking of' their dead or living loved ones as their "god" or "God".

Nor did she say or infer anyone was putting their dead or living loved ones on a pedestal of:

a.) equal-or-greater emotional investment, 

nor

b.) equal-or-greater personal respect, 

nor 

c.) equal-or-greater priority 

nor

d.) equal-greater moral authority 

compared to any "God". 

The conflicts of interest (that she is referring to): 

The Christian "God" won't tolerate **any** level of:

 relationship with ancestor-spirits.

Why not?

Because this would count as a form of spiritism, for all of the fundamentalist versions of Christian religion(s). 

It would also be a threat to your religion because the mere FACT of anyone feeling FREE to think/live/love (or even personally IDENTIFY) beyond the limits of your authority means your religion would be denied exclusive control over that person. 
 

For those Japanese people, this has nothing to do with obedience to authority. 

It's only that for you, because you see everything through that lens. 

Their ancestor-spirit-narrative does not include any such spirit trying to act as an authority in their lives. 

Thus, it has no relevance to having two "masters".

It only becomes relevant to obedience (as a point of relationship to "authority"; aka having (any) "master") ... 

only because Christian-fundamentalist religiosity happens to be an authoritarian (aka "master/slave") religion. 

This turns the situation ***into** a "masters" issue, only because Christian fundamentalist religions hold to a conceptualized deity who is vio!@n^ly insecure and thus literally outlaws having any forms (or levels/degrees) of unapproved relationships. 

So then it works this way:

Some Japanese people have conceptualized ancestors who (because they are dead) now live as spirits. 

Japanese people have a relationship with their ancestors. 

But to say they "worship" those ancestors is a matter of semantics. 

That word, if you really think about it, only means:

To feel and express intense respect and/or special regard. 

Meanwhile, ... 

A Christian has a conceptualized "father".

In other words, they have a mental image of a "father" they've never personally met.

Everything in their own head that defines both the BIOGRAPHICAL DATA and the personality of that father ... are ideas that other humans put into their head. 

That father seems real to them. 

They *feel* like they have a close personal relationship with him. 

But the only reason they feel that way is because they have been tricked into projecting their own emotions onto their mental image of "Him". 

This is very similar to how stalkers feel like they are in a relationship with a celebrity they have never met.

-Except **in this case* the celebrity doesn't exist in the real world. 

Christians are imagining a "relationship" with an AI-generated celebrity. 

This form of "A.I." is an ancient mental technology, where many random men wrote lines of code as "texts".

Those texts, combined with the effects of Christian-religious culture, generate ideas in the minds of readers and listeners. 

That artificial personality is fictionalized as a hyper-masculine HE-MAN, Master Of The Universe. 

Now, don't get me wrong.

I'm not saying "nobody created our Universe".

I'm not even addressing that issue. So let's be sure nobody thinks I'm advocating for "hard atheism" or "anti-Theism".  I'm simply avoiding that unrelated issue entirely, so we don't get distracted from the point.

Some real-life universe-creator(s) might exist.  

However, that's definitely not what Christians are introducing people to. 

Here in the real world, ... 

Child/sheep/slave/wives of an imaginary father are "choosing to take a leap of faith" in what they're being told by their churches.

Those churches act like Wizards of Oz.

Starting with the assholes who first created the stories found in Bibles,

and CONTINUING with all later Abrahamic religions, ...

Mere mortal men hide behind the projection of a fake super-Being, while those men project their own voices as "His". 

That projected image and voice reach right into each mentally captured person's "heart,"; the emotional centers of their brains. 

Thus, Christians FEEL like they are hearing a super-Being say, "You may not have any friends or family except when I approve". 

Thus, the legends of ***Jesus, the Super Jew*** (later re-imagined as the king of a totally different religion) have him saying that he INTENDS to break up loving families. 

Granted, that voice ALSO says "you may not yield to, nor even dignify, any other voice as equally or more morally authoritative over you". 

**However**, ... 

This is simply NOT something Japanese ancestors (in their cultural narrative) are attempting to do (or be). 

The reason Christianity-themed authoritarians PERCEIVE IT as a matter of **obedience to authority** (in other words, "having masters") 

is because:

a.) They were told that "father" considers fearful, cowering, and absolute obedience as the ultimate and essential virtue. 

and

b.) They are told that "father's" moral laws (things he requires absolute obedience about) is that nobody is allowed to be friends or family with anyone "father" disapproves of. 

  **THAT** is what turns the matter into a matter of being a proper slave to a demanding master. 

Whereas, those Japanese people are NOT being asked by anyone (not by their living family, nor their ancestors, nor their culture) to see their ancestors as

a.) "gods" 

nor as 

b.) "moral authorities" 

nor as 

c.) due for more respect,

nor

d.) deserving of stronger emotional responses, 

nor

e.) more important than:

Whoever-or-whatever created our Universe. 

--

--

 If a hypothetical Real-Child-A grows up being mutually respectful friends with Real-Child-B, 

they might still honor that relationship as adults.

The same thing can happen if that Real-Child-A grows up in a "relationship" with their mentally envisioned dead-grandfather.

Although we can also just entertain the idea that maybe ancestor spirits are literally real. 

The same point applies. 

After real-Child-A grows up, they have a chance encounter with an adult from a very different culture.

To paraphrase this matter (fairly and correctly), ... 

The Christian-religious adult says:

 "My real Daddy is the creator of the entire Universe.
And that makes him YOUR Real Daddy too. 

And oh, by the way, he sent me to tell you that you better join my "totally not a religion".

Also, you better follow my church's (cherry-picked) "totally not rules", or else our Real Daddy will throw you away forever in a burning trash pit (a fate well-deserved for trash-people like yourself). 

Also, by the way, one of those "totally not rules" you better follow (OR ELSE!) is that you better not keep 

a.) feeling, 

b.) thinking, 

or 

c.) demonstrating 

RESPECT for
(nor a living and dynamic connection with)
anyone (real or imagined) except for anyone on Real Daddy's short-list of people you are allowed to respect and/or be in an active relationship with.

Now, if you refuse to join our "totally not a religion" (which is also "totally not a cult") for any reason at all, then Real Daddy will see it as an act of rebelling against his authority. 

Also, if you join but refuse to abide by our "totally not rules", Real Daddy will see that ALSO as an act of rebelling against his authority (aka "master"-ship over you). 

Thus, Real Daddy will insist you are allowing those other people to be your "master".

[Even if that has fuckall (in other words, nothing at all) to do with what those Japanese people are thinking, feeling, or doing.] 

Real Daddy reserves the right to Gaslight everyone (via his "totally authorized" agents) about people's own thoughts, feelings, and life choices. 

Also, Real Daddy couldn't be bothered to tell you any of this stuff himself. 

He's very busy. 

So he found some special people (humans who are naturally superior to others, according to those men who vouched for themselves).

 Through those random special people, Real Daddy spread holy rumors.

The Divine Grapevine, which is "totally not a game of Telephone", eventually reached me:
 A righteous Christian in the truest "totally not a sect" of the one true "totally not a religion" which is also "totally not a cult". 

Now, I'm relaying those messages to you. 

And you better believe me, or else Real Daddy will do extremely and permanently violent things to you.

And also, you better spread these ideas to your children too. 

Or else Real Daddy might hurt them too. 

In fact, he's already planning to do violent shit to your whole family.

And if that happens, he is already preplanning to blame you for what he does to you. 

But there might still be time to avoid it. 

All you have to do, if you want to avoid that violence, is to place:

* absolutely random, 

and 

* absolutely absolute, ... trust in ME (the human in front of you whose vocal cords and typing fingers are being used by Real Daddy as his own voice). 

And you'll have to take MY word for that.

[So even though you're calling this an issue of "trusting God", it really actually boils down to trusting random fallible humans who claim without good evidence to speak for (a) "God".]

Also, don't worry. We can wait until after you join us, before we start leaning hard on you about all the money we need.

We might even wait slightly longer before we start grooming your children to go on extended camping trips and "private counseling sessions" with covertly narcissistic men who won't have to earn your trust first." 

-So sayeth you. 

---

---

Now, let's make this matter even more clear.

When a Jehovah's Witness encounters:

a.) casual but respectful disinterest, 

or

b.) people who seriously consider it but ultimately don't find the JW's sales pitch to be factual, logical, or ethical, 

or

c.) people who are strongly certain that the JW spiritual narrative is super-wrong in every way that matters,

...

The JW walks away thinking "that person is rejecting God's authority over them, and thus choosing the violent fate God has planned for wicked people". 

Now, the JW would say that about you, too.

But are they being reasonable and fair?

We both know they are *NOT* being reasonable or fair.

You and I both think the JW conceptualization of "God" is not supported by:

a.) the available facts

b.) logical reasoning 

nor 

c.) ethical reasoning. 

Thus, you and I both refuse to "bend the knee" to the JW premise of moral authority. 

But even still, the JWs will say you and I are allowing some non-God-entities to be our "master", by refusing to allow "Him" be our "master". 

Now, my reason for refusing to bend the knee to the JW's moral authority, and refusing to dignify their claims about "God" ... are not identical to your reasons. But we do share SOME reasons in common. 

And yet, our reasons should not matter. Because nobody owes a cult 60 seconds of our day to even listen to them. 

 -Especially since:

If a literal, automously self-aware, BEING of unlimited power, unlimited knowledge, and perfect moral character WANTS anyone to KNOW something, ...
They would speak for themselves.


To do otherwise would be reckless, because FALLIBLE messengers are UNQUALIFIED (far too fallible) to convey a perfect message without corrupting it.

- Nor can they be depended upon to come across as credible.

Nor is any human language capable of relaying any perfect message without something crucial being lost.

 

Lost in oral transmission (The Telephone Game),

again when being written (generations later),  

again when being cherry-picked for a "canon",  

again in translation,

again in every reader's equally subjective interpretations,

again when those readers attempt (and fail) to be fully understood by others. 

 Nor do any humans have a good reason to even SUSPECT that a perfect BEING would behave so recklessly, as to leave our eternal fate in the hands and mouths of other fallible humans. 

 

At best, Christians come in the spirit of "trust me, bro".

At worst, on the pretense of supreme moral authority.

This is a preemptive thought-stopping exercise, meant to immediately disable each target's sense of right (and responsibility) to evaluate the credibility of the claims being made. 

Now, you might SAY you want us to accept a full sense of MORAL and PERSONAL right to evaluate your claims *ABOUT* "God" and ABOUT us people.

You might say we have that right.

You might admit you're calling upon us to exercise that right. 

But notice:

The moment we do, ...
You'll say, "How DARE anyone presume the right to judge (evaluate; assess the merits of) what I have put before you?!" 

You'll say we have "judged GOD" merely because we have found your words (about "God" and about us) to be lacking factual, logical, or ethical merit. 

Whenever Christians speak on these matters, we get a litany of false facts, logical fallacies, and perception-hacking emotional gimmicks;

 - all of which are forms of abuse. 

The Jehovah's Witnesses are simply WRONG to accuse you and me of "rejecting God" or committing some form of idolatry. 

They are simply WRONG to paint our unimpressed state-of-mind as a matter of putting our own egos above "God", or putting other people (or other interests) above "God". 

But they're doing exactly what you're doing. 

My reasons are NOT the reasons they are ascribing to me. 

They are pretending to know something specific about my moral character and mental state.

They are assigning ill-character and specific intent.

They are demonizing me based only on a NEED to justify their own theological commitments. 

And they're doing the same thing to you. 

For thousands of years, that's what mainstream and fringe Christians have been doing.

It's what the Roman Catholic Church did. 

It's what the Protestants learned from the Catholics. 

It's what the fringe-independent Christian churches learned from the mainstream churches.

But it's unfair.

And it's ugly. 

Those Japanese people don't secretly "know" that any Christian-religious fundamentalist theology is "true".

They are merely struggling internally between:

a.) wanting to explore the possibility that it MIGHT be true 

vs

b.) wanting to honor their family (living-family and spirit-family) and also their culture.

 

They **understand* that:

The Christian-religious path they are merely looking at (from the very first stones along that path; intersecting with the different path they were/are already on) ...

has **warning signs** which are understandably disturbing. 

 Those signs include:

 "Warning: 

If you travel this path to its intended destination, you'll end up being REQUIRED to ADOPT
* aggressively disrespectful
* feelings, rationizations, and behaviors ...
against every person and relationship you currently cherish. 

You'll be required to DENOUNCE and DISAVOW your ancestor spirits.

You'll also be required to demonize everyone who thinks differently, lives differently, and identifies differently; 

even to the extreme extent of convincing yourself that everyone who isn't a proper and true Christian deserves eternal violence;
 including the infliction of severe agonizing pain, along with the more passive "totally not abuse" of eternal discard. 

You should plan on spending your eternity in bliss, while not giving a single fuck about everyone writhing in agony in a "Hell";

no matter how much you loved them,  
...
and no matter how much they loved you,
...
and no matter how accidental their final fate will be. 

You must pre-decide that every person's worthiness to be respected, included, and loved (even their right to exist in good health and peace) was always CONTINGENT upon their USEFULNESS (their "utility"; how well they could be utilized)
for Real Daddy's interests; the greatest of which will always be: The glorification of HIS eternal ego (as made manifest through ours)."

--

--

These things are a very, very high price for humans to PAY, for entry into a paradise.

You're not just asking them to sacrifice healthy relationships.

You're also asking them to make forced sacrifices of non-consenting people's emotional health, as a predictable consequence of any singular convert's coerced conscription to your god's army of destructively colonizing culture-warriors. 

Meanwhile, those people are simultaneously being GASLIGHTED about it, when Christians say "Jesus paid the full price".

That gaslights people into pretending they themselves aren't paying a heavy price of their own.

Thus, Christian Gaslighters try to SAY that the "real reason" those Japanese people are hesitant and conflicted ... is because those Japanese people want to have other gods and masters. 

 It's NOT their reasons. But you are TELLING THEM it's their reasons, so that you can gaslight them into thinking they can't even know their own thoughts and experiences (even their own heart),
... just so you can get them into a maluable mind-fog where they'll start letting you dictate "reality" to them. 

It's absolutely insidious.

It is many layers of psychological and spiritual abuse.

It also does literal and physical damage to people's brains. 

It also does irreparable harm to the people your religion is trying to estrange them from. 

Your "totally not a religion" is amongst the most prominent and persistent catalysts of destructive division, suffering, and death in our world. 

Meanwhile, ...
Many of us
love
many of you.

But that actually just makes it worse.

Because your cult weaponizes that love as a weakness to be exploited.  


You turned us into your "enemies" by turning yourselves into ours, and then blaming us for it. 

Those who stand the strongest against you ...
seek cooperation.

But you insist on competition. 

We seek harmony.

You sow division.

We seek mutual understanding.

You sow distrust. 

We seek mutual peace. 

You sow chaos.

We fight to ensure everyone's health.

Your cult sacrifices everyone's health upon an altar. 
-Worst of all, when they infiltrate and hijack entire governments for that purpose. 

When we set healthy boundaries so that EVERY voice is equal, you cry "persecution!" because that's how deep your sense of entitlement runs. 


When we get angry about all the abuse, you act as if you're "totally not a cult of Narcissism" is being victimized. 

You cannot be reasoned with because your religion stole that ability from you.

This is why, here in the USA, we often cannot even have an hour's PEACE at a public beach, street, plane, or subway. 

But you think the Japanese society should just let you keep trying to colonize their society?

They have a peaceful and respectful society.

They'd be fools to let you ruin that; the same as the UK is being foolish to allow Islam that same opportunity. 

We cannot appeal to your humanity, because that's exactly what your religion is trying to get away from. 

We seek for everyone to speak with a mutual and equitable social voice.

  You will claim to want that also.
But when you guys speak of "equality", you mean it in the Animal Farm way.


We simply cannot have a world where true equality of voice exists when each of you insists that your own voice booms as the voice of our "God". 

And yet, you call that "humility", because you kneel in absolutely unconditional surrender ... to your own egos ... which each of you has mistaken for "God". 

Your story says you are humble heroes and heroines. 

 But here in the real world,
where love struggles and truth sobers,
...
We're all living in a horror story.

But you?

You are among our most terrifying monsters.