When An Apologist Argues That The Christian God Isn't Guilty Of Throwing People Away Like Trash

I posed a question:


"If someone matters, 
(then): 

If their life already has value,
and
if their lack of religiosity isn't causing a problem for anyone,

then
how could a "God" justify throwing then away like trash?"

--------

Someone responded with this:

"without being too theological, according to Christian theology, and other religions, man is sinful by nature. God gave his chosen people, the Jews, the Mosaic Law. In which there were 613 commandments, we usually only hear about the first ten. Within those were ways to atone for sin because no man could fulfill all the law and the wages of sin is death. God loved mankind so much He gave His Son Jesus, who we believe is the only person to live a sin free life, as a perfect sacrifice to atone for all sin. All we have to do is accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, confess our sins and through Jesus we are saved. So God is not trashing or throwing anyone away. He as made a way whereby all can be saved. I hope that was detailed enough to give you a good start without being too long."

---

In reply:

I don't know how you could get more theological than:
all of that. 

 But yes.
Some (not all) religions teach the basic idea of all humans being naturally faulty. 

And as long as we aren't committing the circular fallacy of calling that "sin", 

they'll get no argument from me about that.

I won't call that a "sin" because the word means "to miss the mark"; "to fall short" of perfection.

Perfection isn't a specific standard.

It just means that something fully meets a standard.

It doesn't prescribe or infer any specific standard. 

However, 
even if someone coujld present a specific and coherent structure of standards to define their idea of "perfection" with, ...

If it's a structure of standards that no one can live up to,
then we're better off without it. 

This is what the song "Sunscreen" was talking about, when it said "DO NOT READ BEAUTY MAGAZINES. They will only make you feel UGLY". 

We should be aware of 
and avoidant of 
any-and-all attempts of someone to SHAME us unto a self-deprecating state;
especially when they're trying to sell us something,
and/or making a bid to leverage for control over any meaningful facet of our journey. 

 Religions which DO that 
are functioning as White Knight abusers; 
searching for vulnerable people to "forgive" for the vulnerable person's shortcomings; so the White Knight can be the rescuer of the undeserving soul, and thus celebrated as as a righteous and entitled authority over that person's life.

In a religious context,

it means that we fail to adequately impress a literal deity; whom has a long list of behavioral demands that we suck at reliably obeying. 

So then that list will depend on which religious theme, 

texts, 

and interpretation 

we're being measured against. 

Although, 
that "God" is really an artificial construct;
a puppet King 
through-whom predators speak;
as ventriloquists 
whom bow before that puppet 
in order to pass themselves off as a fellow 
servants. 

And then they CONFLATE the basic idea of a Universe-CREATOR
with their ideas ABOUT that creator; 
so that they can mindfuck people into thinking that questioning or rejecting their BULLSHIT 
is tantamount to questioning or rejecting a "God". 

They're hoping the target/victim doesn't realize 
that "Even if there IS a "God" (whatever that is), 
... it's not automatically the preacher's (conceptualization of) "God" by default. 
--
--
--

I realize that atheists can be pretty brutal 

when they criticize religions; especially Abrahamic religions. 

However,
as a way to feel better about that, 

the various religions all like to imagine that 

atheists all "secretly know" WHO the true "God" is, and who his special people are, and what that "God" wants from everyone.

The Jehovah's Witnesses think that

about:

 everyone who didn't become a JW

after hearing the JW message.

The Catholics think that way

about:

everyone who didn't become a Catholic 

after hearing the Catholic message.

The Westboro Baptists think the same way.

So do all the Christian denominations and independents.

Or, at least all the fundamentalist and moderates.

They imagine 

(insanely) 

that everyone who has heard some version of "the message", 

even if we heard it from a counterfeit version of Christianity, 

magically becomes aware of:
what the true God, 
true people are. 

and the true message are,

That way,

they can say something fanatically ridiculous, like 

"All we have to do is accept (the message)(as true). 

Otherwise, we have each "freely chosen" to "reject this generous and free offer", and have thus "rejected the true God" and thus "chosen Hell". 

It's really, really, really F'd up reasoning.

 

It's not factual.

Not only is the claim not based on known historical facts, 

it runs entirely counter to social and neurological science.

We KNOW the brain doesn't form beliefs/perceptions-of-reality 

the way fundamentalists imagine it works.

We also KNOW the religious history of Christians and Hebrews didn't happen the way fundamentalists think it happened.

We also know the planet's geological and biological history didn't unfold the way fundamentalists think it did.  

It's also not logical. 

There's no logical reason for anyone to think there is:

a.)

a deity.

 Nothing in real life attests to that. 

I've heard ALL of the apologetics that are used in formal and informal debates about this.
And ALL of those arguments are logical fallacies. 

b.) 

only one of those.

 Monotheism is new.

 Humans worked their way up to polytheism; skipping monotheism entirely.

For hundreds of thousands of years, 

no one conceived of monotheism

until really late in the game;

and by a natural progression.  

Once people's imaginations evolved into the idea of literal super-people in the sky, 
there was: 

 Many gods working together,

 many gods competing,

many gods but everyone has their own favorite,

 many gods but one is generally considered "best" in each region, 

 the best becomes stronger than the rest, 

 wars settle whose god is "worthy", 

 the rest become trivial,

the "Best" God gets so jealous that the others get discarded, to make him happy. 

 One basic idea of a "God" remains. 

And then we have countless sects competing over different conceptualizations of "God". 

 Meanwhile, Christian sects (and independents)  can't agree between each other about ... really anything meaningful. 

It's also not fair to/about the people who arrive at different conclusions. 

People in different sects, 

and people in different religions 

aren't "choosing to be wrong".

All the people in the "wrong" sects of Christianity 

aren't "choosing to be wrong".

They are doing the best they can

with whatever brain they have. 

Now, atheists may still give the competing religions and sects shit for the stupid shit they say and the pointlessly severe problems they cause. 

But holy F#$%.  
No one 

[and I mean NO ONE]

is as brutal towards Christians 

as other Christians.

An atheist will say "that thing you just said isn't logical" or "that preachment you guys preach is hurting innocent people".

But a Christian fundamentalist will say (about people in other interpretations of Christianity) 

"You deserve Eternal and extreme punishment for choosing to think the not-correct-enough things about God". 

It's not actual Justice.

It's not loving.

It's not reasonable.

It's ugly.

It's stupid. 

It's clinically narcissistic. 

 

And it's causing a lot of real harm in our world. 

They ARE saying that their "God" will throw countless people away like trash. 

They just don't REALIZE that's what they're saying; because their psycho-manipulative cults are expertly creating compartments in people's brains ... so that parts of a fundamentalist's brain doesn't notice (isn't even capable of processing) the actual meaning of the words they are saying. 

Per their theology, 
The Creator Of The Universe 
created billions and billions of people 
knowing in advance which ones would end up in a Hell he was about to ALSO create.

And then,
he not only MADE such a place (per Christian theology; an idea they actually copied from the Greeks) 
but:
 He did not make sure everyone had a fair chance to hear, understand, and prove it. 

Religious FAITH 
is random. 
 It's arbitrary; ultimately being determined by a shit-long-list of variables ... which a person neither "freely chose" NOR is consciously aware of. 

And it has FUCKALL to do with moral character.  

Thus, a fate-system based on faith 
generates random results. 

Thus, yes. Per their theology,
he is throwing countless lives away.
And it's lives that it made no sense to create in the first place. 

It would have made more sense to just create the people who WILL win the fate lottery.
Make them only.
Them them IN heaven.
Don't make anyone else.

Simple. 

OR 
make sure everyone ends up in heaven. 
Because NO ONE actually "chooses to be wrong". 
People just need help figuring shit out; 
-and I mean LOTS more help than people are actually getting. 

OR 
let the dead
rest in peace;
not suffer forever to satisfy a Supreme Narcissist's enterally bruised ego. 

LOVE 
isn't what Christians think it is.